Author: Aleš Podbrežnik
Photos: Aleš Podbrežnik
Location: Vienna (Wien) / Arena / Austria
Interview date: 14.03.2013
The controversial British glam rockers The Darkness properly shook things up in 2003, when their debut »Permission To Land« came out. Two years later the band hit the absolute extreme of musical excess with »One Way Ticket To Hell… And Back«. At a time when MTV was ruled by bands of boundless boredom, post-grunge derivatives of the Staind, Nickelback,… variety, The Darkness, with their “hairdo” of unexpected shock-trooper principle (the kind that does wonders for unclogging even the most stubbornly blocked-up pipes) and a refined display of parody, “tossed a rotten egg” into the pop culture of mass dumbing-down. Rock ‘n’ roll was back in the spotlight of the masses with the arrival of The Darkness. But it had to blow up in Great Britain. Not in the US, where as a rule they just copy things and later sell them repackaged, all over again, to the dimwitted masses.
Sadly, the fun didn’t last long. The band called it quits in 2006, and frontman Justin Hawkins, exhausted, declared that he had to step away from anything connected to the music business for a while. Then came last year, when a rehabilitated Justin (cleansed of all his bad habits) entered into serious talks with his brother Dan, and the two of them agreed to fire up The Darkness again. And in the original »Permission To Land« lineup, no less.
The result of the band’s fresh start was the album »Hot Cakes«, released last August. After last year’s tour with Lady Ga Ga and a run of festival gigs, it was time for a headlining tour of their own, and just before The Darkness’ show in Vienna, RockLine caught up with guitarist Dan Hawkins and bassist Frankie Poullain, who took some time out to trade a few precious words with us…
RockLine: Your new studio album »Hot Cakes« has been out since mid-August 2012. How have listeners reacted so far?
Dan: The response has been great. A lot of people say »Hot Cakes« is our best studio effort. Our fans really like it.
Frankie: Classic Rock magazine is one of the few that’s been consistently positive about us over the last ten years. They gave the album nine out of ten. For us that’s a really nice bit of recognition.
RockLine: W.A.S.P. frontman Blackie Lawless once said that every ten years a new generation of rock fans grows up and discovers bands from years past. Ten years have passed since your beginnings. How are young people taking to you?
Dan: I agree with what Blackie said. We’ve got more young rockers coming to our shows now than ever before. When we started, we mostly caught the attention of hardcore rockers, the ones who had already absorbed rock thoroughly. People who were already fully formed in that sense and had their musical taste sorted. But I believe that even with the first album we reached the young crowd too, and they gave us a listen. They listened to our music, which was shaped by a whole host of old rock bands. Maybe listening to The Darkness is exactly what pushed them to go digging into older rock bands afterwards. A lot of fans tell us we’re the reason they ended up in rock music. We broke out of the pop framework, we went through that phase for a short while too, basically a kind of pop-phenomenon phase. For a very short time. That phenomenon brought our music to young people who normally didn’t listen to rock, but because we showed up alongside the pop music you hear on radio and TV, it steered listeners back toward paying attention to rock again. That same group of fans has now grown up after the seven years we were off the scene, and they can come to our shows. I can’t say The Darkness are an influential band, but with our presence we encouraged people to turn to rock music again.
RockLine: Some see you as a band that’s all show and posing, others as a “party” band, and others are happy with the brand of hard rock you stand for. Where would you place yourselves?
Dan: It’s a mix of all three, right?
Frankie: Definitely.
Dan: There’s certainly some showing off, then there’s rock minimalism,…
Frankie: And the fact that we get seen as a “party” band comes, to a degree, from our choice to call ourselves The Darkness in the first place. It’s a gimmick: we took something negative and turned that negativity into a positive. It’s about provoking people. People love slapping labels on bands in advance. In 2003 hardly any band was bothering to provoke with the way they dressed. Maybe that was the right approach, building that into our whole image, or rather, in 2003 reminding everyone of that forgotten schtick. Indie rock bands never did that. Only later. The Killers, for example. Things have changed so much by now that it’s hard to even say what indie rock is anymore.
RockLine: How did the new songs come together? Dan, after a long time you started working with your brother again. How did that go?
Dan: Yeah, yeah. Business as usual. We wrote a lot of music before we even decided to bring The Darkness back to life. After that it was a full-on collaboration between the two of us, of course. We’ve always worked on arrangements together, and this time was no different. Things flowed really smoothly. Everybody in the band works together better now than we used to. We’re more mature and more in sync with each other. We write music all the time. Even in the dressing rooms right before the shows. Anywhere. We record ideas and material during the tours too. But of course we approach it in the spirit of fun. Making and writing songs has to be enjoyable for us, the fun has to come along for the ride. No exceptions.
RockLine: The songs on the new album »Hot Cakes« sound a lot more defined than on its predecessor »One Way Ticket To Hell… And Back«. Was that a conscious approach, or did it just happen on its own?
Dan: »Hot Cakes« is definitely more sonically defined. With this album we wanted to get close to our fans again, to build a genuine connection. We could have swung into a completely different musical direction. We could have gone a lot more “old-fashioned,” “old school,” if you will. We’re definitely capable of that. But our wish and motivation was to land somewhere between the two previous albums with this one. With way more energy unleashed, and with the desire to stay competitive in sound production with the other big bands who can boast top-shelf, modern sound treatment. People like a good sound. With »Hot Cakes« The Darkness delivered an album with a really “fat” guitar sound. That’s something we only truly pulled off on this album. For example, the guitars on Concrete or Street Spirit, a Radiohead cover by the way, are really full. When you’re making a new album after a longer break, it would be silly to serve up a totally different musical direction, because fans of your music expect an album that reminds them of the previous ones. That’s why we decided to hit somewhere between the first two albums. And, like I said, with a lot more energy let loose. The guitar sound is truly massive and consistent from start to finish. I can’t say that for the previous two albums. Still, first and foremost we also wanted to bring out the element of our music that’s fun for the fans, that gets them excited, that gets them going. We didn’t want to overdo it and accidentally sound too heavy for the people who love our music. Hence this kind of middle-ground move.
RockLine: »Hot Cakes« also features a collaboration with the legendary flutist and Jethro Tull leader Ian Anderson. How did that come about?
Dan: Yeah. For the song Cannonball. A really great track. One of my favorite songs on the album. The song is older. In the middle section I go into a solo while Justin joins me on vocals. That middle part always reminded us of Ian Anderson’s style, since he actually sings while he plays his flute solos. So we thought: »Hey, why don’t we just ask Ian straight up if he’d play a flute solo for us?« Ian was »IN«. He said to send him the song. He sent it back with the flute solo in it. We never even met Ian. But we were over the moon when we got his file. Like Christmas Day. He did a great job. We quietly hoped we might perform this song with Ian Anderson live one day. We’d planned for Ian to join us on this tour at the show at the Hammersmith Apollo, but unfortunately Ian Anderson is out on his own tour at the same time. Hopefully it’ll happen someday. And on the next The Darkness album I want to try even more things we haven’t done yet.
Frankie: The flute is a really special instrument.
Dan: The flute has a firmly cemented place in rock music. My Bloody Valentine use it, and so did Led Zeppelin.
Frankie: There’s a pastoral note in both bands, both come “from the countryside.”
RockLine: Do you two keep up with new albums from other artists?
Dan: I can only speak for myself here. Absolutely. When I’m on tour, in some hotel room, when I’m not making music, I like to sail over to iTunes and the like and dig around for new stuff.
Frankie: All of us in the band were super excited when My Bloody Valentine put out a new studio album after 20 years. I’m also really enjoying the new Suede album.
Dan: I think there aren’t as many new bands today who inspire us the way Suede and My Bloody Valentine did when they hit the rock scene. And where are Suede and My Bloody Valentine today? They’re nowhere to be seen. And we in The Darkness don’t necessarily look for inspiration only within rock music. It could be anything. But it’s hard to get inspired by new bands. My opinion is that new artists keep getting worse and worse.
RockLine: What do you think about talent show competitions?
Dan: They can kiss my ass! These shows are really harmful to music in a number of ways. I’ve got a cousin who was warming up to that stuff, but I had to explain to him that if he wants to make a living from music, he has to find a way to stick with it. You have to keep performing on stage constantly. You can’t just wait around for someone to do you a favor and crown you the winner of a talent show. If that’s you, you’re not capable of surviving on the scene. You’re not capable of performing. People see a talent show as a shortcut to success in music. They imagine that making music is so fucking easy, that becoming a recording artist is so fucking easy, that making a living from it is so fucking easy. That’s the real damage. When kids get all fired up by X Factor shows and the like, they step into the spotlight 10 years too early. It takes a long time to master all the skills of being a performing artist. That principle is truly harmful for the music scene. And in Great Britain there’s one more thing that has a negative cultural effect on music. It’s the time around Christmas. The tradition used to be that songs were prepared for the Christmas season, with the aim of fighting their way to number one on the charts. At first that was great fun. Nobody took it too seriously. If you pulled it off, great, if not, no big deal. Now when the winner of some big competition releases their Christmas music, they’re guaranteed the top spot on the charts. And nobody else even bothers anymore. That’s worsened the very perception of music culture in Great Britain. Turned it for the worse. To hell with the lot of them, if you ask me.
Frankie: A whole heap of people are trying their luck in the music business today who aren’t musicians and don’t belong here. Their careers end when they’re 26 or 27. They’re kept “alive” by the people who make money off them. Managers, producers and so on.
Dan: You really can’t trust it. In all the years since they started running these competitions, the only thing that’s come out of it that’s convinced me at all is the singer Leona Lewis. Let’s say she counts for something. Still, I’d warn you not to fall for the Leona Lewis discovery. She was part of a ten-year program where they literally trained her to become the winner of the competition. It was all planned in advance. You know I don’t believe in conspiracy theories, but still, still… you can write that I hate them. Really. I hate them! Ha ha ha ha…
RockLine: And how do you see internet piracy, which has hit the music industry? Bands have to play more and more shows to make up for the financial losses…
Frankie: As far as I’m concerned, we in The Darkness never made music to make money from it. At least that wasn’t why we started. Music is fun for us. I think it’s really good that people have lots of different options online where they can choose music for themselves. On top of that, it’s good because the music industry can’t sink its claws into this too.
Dan: The worst thing about piracy, file sharing and downloading lies in the fact……I’ll be totally honest. The record labels screwed up. They didn’t foresee that things would slip out of their hands. Today it should be that every label, from the biggest to the independents, has its own music bank, its own kind of iTunes catalog. They could offer their music that way at affordable prices. That way they could still bring in the money they put toward developing the bands under their wing. Bands can’t promote their music the way they should anymore because of this. Labels used to have money to look after the development of their bands. Today it’s gone. Bands get exactly one shot. If they make it, they’ve made it. If they don’t, the label drops them. It used to be that a label would keep investing in an artist so they could develop their music. It’s really frustrating for new bands. The way I see it personally, as a musician who makes a living from music, it’s not that much of a problem, because I earn less money from piracy. It’s the fact that there simply isn’t any money in the music industry anymore. It used to be normal for a band to put out their best albums only with their fourth or fifth studio effort. Today labels drop even bigger names if they don’t succeed with the first album they release through that label. And that’s terrible.
RockLine: Do you ever get sick of the stage?
Frankie: Never, not me. Ten years ago we were in really bad shape. We woke up hungover, we were burnt out, we did drugs, drank way too much. Today we live for our performances. That comes first for us, and we truly love performing and enjoy it. We’re a much stronger act now when we take the stage than we’ve ever been. On top of that, we keep improving and maturing all the time. From show to show.
RockLine: Last year you decided to join Lady Ga Ga as her opening act. What can you tell us about that experience?
Dan: That move brought us a lot of new fans. Lady Ga Ga fans come to our shows now. People were really surprised by the move, but I’ve always said that if you only play solo rock shows, only tour alongside other rock acts, only turn up at rock festivals, then you won’t take your rock music very far. So it’s good to appear in front of a completely different audience. One that doesn’t expect you in their wildest dreams. At first everybody goes through the roof: »What the hell is this!?!?!?« Then half a show later they’re saying: »I actually really like what I’m seeing!« It’s a great move, because it widens our rock horizons, just as it widens the audience’s rock horizons. Rock ‘n’ roll is really a simple thing. Anyone can understand it, anyone can identify with it quickly. Especially when we’re the ones playing rock.
RockLine: Did you meet Lady Ga Ga in person too?
Frankie: Yes. A few times.
Dan: Great girl. We got along well. Frankie and I hung out with her the most.
Frankie: It’s incredible how well-read she is at 26. She’s like a sponge. She soaks up information from everywhere. She’s always on the ball, everything interests her. She’s full of ideas and loves to reflect on things from all different aspects of life.
Dan: Personally I found it hugely energizing, even inspiring, how hard Lady Ga Ga works. She grafts. Her motto was always that she didn’t sit around on tour, and even when she felt tired, she was making music. During the tour itself it turned out that Lady Ga Ga is a very, very creative person.
interview by: Jernej Vene
text edited by: Aleš Podbrežnik
photos: Aleš Podbrežnik
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